radioairplay_1275x709

What Artists Should Know About Jango

For my latest thoughts on Jango Airplay, see Why I Still Use Jango

Would you pay $1 for a new fan? Would you pay 2 cents to have your song played to a fan of your favorite band? I would, and did, with Jango Airplay.

Jango offers free internet radio that plays listener-selected artists alongside similar artists. Tell it which artists and songs you like and dislike, and it adjusts accordingly. Basic social networking features are included, allowing listeners to share music and compare tastes.

Jango Airplay

Jango Airplay lets artists buy their way into Jango’s recommendation engine, promising guaranteed airplay alongside your pick of popular artists. You can buy 1000 plays for $30, 2000 plays for $50, or 5000 plays for $100. I started with 5000 plays, and was so encouraged by the results that I spent another $200 for 10,000 more.

Color Theory stats on Jango

When your song is played, a pop-up appears on the listener’s screen. They can close it, ignore it, “like” the song (give it a thumbs up), or become a fan. Once the song gets 50 likes, it enters general rotation, generating non-paid plays that continue after the paid campaign ends. Jango estimates that 5-10% of listeners will rate the song or become a fan. My results were even better, with 12% of paid plays resulting in likes. It only takes 5% to put the song into general rotation after 1000 plays, which can be had for $30.

That said, just reaching general rotation doesn’t mean the song will be played very often. The more likes it has, the more it will come up. I’m currently averaging about 25 free plays per day, approaching the halfway point of my $300 promotion.

About 2% of listeners became fans of my music. At 2 cents per play, that’s $1 per fan. I’m obviously using the term “fan” loosely here, since liking one song hardly constitutes any sort of personal commitment. Some listeners may have heard the song multiple times before becoming a fan, which would give their declaration a tad more significance.

Color Theory fans on Jango

A couple of days ago I messaged each of my fans to introduce myself, invite them to visit my web site, and let them know where to buy my albums. So far I’ve received four messages back and one order by e-mail, though only about 20% of the messages have been opened. Yesterday Jango added a bulletin feature which lets artists communicate with all their fans once per week. Unlike messages, bulletins are visible from the listener’s home page, so I expect a better response rate.

$300 is nothing to sneeze at, especially when stacked up against sales of my music. What exactly is my return on that investment?

  1. Increased sales. I can only verify $20 in direct sales, but it’s reasonable to expect a few iTunes sales as well. My Amazon physical CD sales are way up this month, but that could be a coincidence.
  2. Royalties. Jango promises to pay royalties on every play, though who knows what that will amount to. In January, the US Copyright Royalty Board announced that it will apply royalties to streaming net services based on revenue. For argument’s sake, if it’s a half cent per play, I’ll eventually get $75 back from SoundExchange.
  3. Song feedback. Listeners are encouraged to comment on the songs. There are over 100 comments on my profile already, though it’s not always clear which song is being commenting on.
  4. Improved targeting. Jango tecently added the Fan Overlap Report, which provides some insight into the musical tastes of the listeners who like your song. The asterisks indicate artists I’ve already selected as similars.

Fan Overlap report

Analyzing current sales and royalties from the paid plays is a bit shortsighted. My guess is that within five years, everyone will be able to listen to anything, anywhere, for a small monthly fee. Artists will receive royalties based on their proportional share of plays. If that scenario comes to pass, investing in new fans could pay dividends for a long time to come.

UPDATE: A Jango representative read this article and gave me an affiliate code. If you are considering trying Jango Airplay, please use this link! You’ll get 100 free plays, and any money earned will be used to buy more plays for my songs.  I will continue to report back with my results over time.

UPDATE 10/19/09: I promised to report back with my results, so here they are. It’s been six months since I wrote this article. I’ve “recycled” the few hundred dollars I made in affiliate earnings back into my campaign, but invested no more money of my own. My current stats are:

37076 plays (29582 paid), 3528 likes, 413 fans, 1837 views

I’m only averaging 25 unpaid plays a day, where I used to get double that. I get more on my totally neglected MySpace page! Maybe there are a lot more artists in the system now, or maybe listeners aren’t listening to similar bands as much, or maybe Jango doesn’t have as many listeners as it used to.

I still have no reliable way to quantify my return, but Jango continues to bring in occasional sales, mailing list sign-ups, Facebook requests, and Twitter followers. While I stopped keeping track after the first $100 or so, my totally unscientific guess is that I’ve earned back maybe half of what I’ve spent. At least a dozen Jango listeners have converted into “real” fans, who I regularly interact with. Maybe the exposure will pay off in the long run, maybe not. Still, if I had a dedicated promotion budget, I’m not sure where else I would spend it! Between a traditional radio campaign and Jango, there’s no contest.

UPDATE 9/8/10: I’m still signed up for the $200/month plan. My latest stats are:

122677 plays (99259 paid), 11669 total likes, 4883 fans, 4090 views

Most importantly to me, 224 listeners shared their email addresses, and went straight to my ReverbNation mailing list!

UPDATE 11/29:11: I’ve written a new article on Jango, and will no longer be updating this one. I’m up to 700 email addresses, and:

269680 plays (207781 paid), 24748 total likes, 9800 fans, 8313 views

For more information on Jango and similar services, see my other articles:
Why I Still Use Jango
The Jango Focus Group

Is Jango Payola?
What Artists Should Know About Earbits
Is a Last.fm Powerplay Campaign Right for You?

232 thoughts on “What Artists Should Know About Jango”

  1. hey Brian, I think it’s really interesting to see the “business side” of the music biz. not only do I enjoy your music but your analysis seems to level-headed. I agree with your final conclusion — finding and nurturing your fan base now will give you a real leg up when Skynet goes live — er, I mean, when all music is in “the cloud” for everyone, everywhere (it’s inevitable!).

  2. Hi there : still finding your blog really interesting and well written !

    Eight to Infinity started a campaign a couple of weeks ago. So far:

    968 plays (867 paid), 204 likes, 15 fans, 66 views

    But I’m only doing 5000 total.

    What does the comparison say ? In this instance, as opposed to the Last.fm comparison we did, we seem to getting better stats than you this time (with last.fm you did better)

    we can acquire “fans” and “likes” at twice your your hit rate, and so half the cost to us. This is probably because we are only promoting one “radio friendly” single, not a album.

    I wonder if is more sensible to just to “Singles” as opposed to entire catalogue with this service ?

  3. Nice Arron! Maybe your targeting is better, or it’s simply a better song. I’m not pushing the whole album – just “We’re Not Getting Any Younger” and “If It’s My Time to Go.”

    Actually, by my calculations your “fan rate” is 1.7% and mine is 1.8%. Your “like rate” is 23.5% and mine is 12.1%. You’re clearly doing far better with likes, but it’s a wash with fans. Which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, because you’d think the two would correspond. Maybe changes in the system are responsible. I’ve been at this since the program launched at the beginning of March.

  4. @Colie : Yeah : buying fans sounds dirty ! LOL I think I might have to think of it as cost of customer aquisition, like I do in normal business speak :). And I guess if it were a real business, with real percentage returns, .50c for a customer is very cheap. Imagine if you you could get eack one to buy a single $1 mp3 file from you, you’d almost break even. If they bought two, youd be in profit.

    @Brian : Thanks : my mental arithmatic was way off on “Fans” : thanks for doing it properly ! I guess we have to leave the subjective quality of each song as an unknown variable.

    Maybe the demographic has changed over time, with more casual listeners now ?

    I can mail you our stats over much the same days as yourself for more detailed comparison : you are getting more profile hits as well as more fans. But your current rate of fan aquisition is in line with ours over those dates in april. All interesting stuff !

  5. hey brian,

    thanks for pretty much explaining Jango for me in this post! I have yet to check it out, and now I am considering it.

    Be well,

    Chris

    P.S. ive been voting everyday for the John Lennon concert, i hope you win!

  6. Great Article Brian, I’ll blog about it later this week. In some ways it seems to provide the perfect targeted marketing campaign but I guess time will show if the sort of user who listens to last.fm and Jango is also the buying type.

  7. @Chris – Thanks for the support! We’ll know in a couple days. I’m optimistic.

    @Gabriel – Amazing MySpace page! It’s nice to see a local on here. :)

    @Andy – My guess is that Jango users are more the buying type than Last.fm users, if only because the site requires less technical savvy. If you can set up scrobbling, you can probably manage p2p. Maybe that’s an unfair generalization, but I noticed that many Last.fm users had the new Depeche album far before its release.

  8. lol, thanks! we just gotta find a way to turn jango users into paying fans :)
    Awesome site, and tons of great info, Brian! I’m going to keep checking back.

  9. Today Jango added a “Demographic Report” feature that shows the age and gender of listeners. Two sub-functions don’t seem to be implemented yet. One shows the age and gender of fans, and the other shows the probability that different age/gender groups will like the song. I’m thinking we’d really need demographic data on all Jango listeners to make that calculation.

  10. Hi,

    We are finishing a new CD with what we beleive to be some great music.
    Next step, is to market it. I am looking into internet marketing, but I
    haven’t a clue. Can you really make money selling music on the web?
    Anyone out there doing it successfully? I know we can sell our CDs
    at the gigs, as we have done it, but the web, is a differant story. Any
    help on this matter will be appreciated! Donny

  11. Thanks for stopping by Donny!

    If you read through the archives here and check out some of the “other resources” in the sidebar, you’ll find a diversity of techniques and opinions.

  12. There is one thing I don’t get. Do Jango pay out royalties to the artists?

    Because if they did, it would be kind of crazy.

    Lets say you buy 5000 plays and when they have played it you would make 30.000 if royalties is on 6cents. I am not sure if 6cents is what they have to pay but. Even if it was 4 cents it would still be hellz of alot of money in profit. If some one have the answer for this that would be beautiful.

    Do they pay royalties for the songs that you purchase to be played. if they do, let me welcome all of you here to the million dollar club.

  13. They claim that they do pay royalties. Based on Last.fm’s payouts, I’d expect something in the neighborhood of a fraction of a cent per play. It’s pretty much negligible.

  14. One thing I did find out about Jango, is that it’s really hard to get the “fans” to respond to the internal Jango emails and bulletins. We personally emailed 30 of our fans on there, and only got 3 responses, and when we’ve sent out bulletins, we haven’t gotten any response. So, I’m not sure how to turn those fans (that we paid for with plays) into actual customers or fans with valid email addresses… any ideas?

    Gabriel
    http://www.myspace.com/lettersburning

    ** Also, I’m looking for a few good dudes to trade imix ratings on a consistent daily basis. Any takers?

  15. That’s my main complaint as well. Internal “e-mails” get better responses than bulletins, but you’ve got to send them one at a time. I get about a 1-2% response rate on my bulletins, even the one where I offered a free CD! They simply aren’t being seen.

  16. There are many ways to interpet Jango and its offerings. For example, if you truly are paying people to listen to your craft on the internet, it may be the same difference as being in the physical world passing out your music hand to hand. You are still paying for hard copy product, you are still paying to get into venues to perform, you are still paying for transportation, how ever you get around. Then again you are still doing that now for internet promotion, aren’t you? So looking @ the many ways to spend your hard earned money to become paid for what you love to make and do, it is definitely @ your own expense. @ what cost $$$$$$$ is the question. Do you wanna pay double to rotate your profit or will you choose to differentiate your expense @ your expense. The choice is yours, choose well grasshopper. Frankly speaking as a whole, Jango seems to be a unlabeled free enterprise affiliation similar to BMI and ASCAP, and SESAC. But without the strong arm of the self infliction of music authority. So the question is……..what is the lesser of two evils?

  17. OK, since you just followed-up, I will do it too. So far it would appear that I paid about $300 for the privilege of winning a few “fans”, only 2 of which I’m in continual contact with through other means (Facebook). I gave away about 30 free CD singles (I paid postage). Total net sales that I can measure = zero.
    So, it “feels good” but financially is not a good trade.

    Jango still has too many weaknesses when it comes to marketing to the people who become your “fans”. Most listeners are completely passive (Jango is playing background music, and they are not interacting).

    I even noted on two occasions when somebody declared themselves a “fan” and then posted a negative comment. So, I don’t think even the “fans” are conscious of how they are declaring themselves. They’re just clicking on something that pops up on their screen to get it to go away ;-)

    -Todd

  18. Thanks for the update!

    Here are my stats:

    5912 plays (5300 paid), 428 likes, 46 fans, 389 views

    I’m averaging about 3 plays (TOTAL) per week now.

    You would think 428 likes would do more than that.

    So far the most bang for the buck has been MusicSubmit.com with me.

    Monty

  19. yeah… Jango is starting to seem more like a no-go for us. I tested the fan response rate by emailing out 50 of our “fans” on jango, and have not received one email back. We already know Jango is not a social destination, and people probably don’t log in too much, they probably just create a profile to listen to music, and that’s it. Also, they haven’t linked up with SESAC yet, so any Sesac artists like ourselves will be waiting a little longer for royalties to come through.

    by the way, I normally wouldn’t promote our own shows on here, but we are playing a Disaster Relief benefit concert at the Viper Room on Nov 7th if anyone’s interested in donating to a worthy cause. All the info is at: http://www.myspace.com/lettersburning

  20. I agree Gabriel. Even after all this time, the fan communication tools are useless. I rarely bother with them, even though they could potentially reach 400 “fans.” Still, I end up hearing from a person every couple weeks or so that discovered me on Jango. And obviously if I earn more affiliate money, I’m going to reinvest it, because that’s what I said I’d do – and I’m nothing if not predictable! ;)

  21. Hi – I added my husband’s music to Jango a couple weeks ago and, while it’s certainly kind of addictive watching the “fans” pile up, I am a little uncomfortable on a couple levels that I’m hoping you can address. 1) how do I know these are real people? I know it seems unlikely that anyone would go to this degree to front some kind of scam, but……. 2) is there a way to track whether fans from Jango actually visit your website or purchase things? Since we don’t see their email addresses on Jango, I can’t compare them with people who are appearing on our site, or on ReverbNation, or Bandcamp, or FB, or… Have you found a tracking mechanism? Thanks for any guidance/reassurance you may offer.

  22. I can understand your skepticism Wendy, but I can’t imagine how the “fans” could be anything but real people. The site draws in huge numbers of listeners and forces a pop-up on them when our music is played, so the numbers of likes and fans seem reasonable to me. You can of course try to contact them through messages and bulletins, but in my experience, very few respond.

    While I don’t know of any way to track Jango fans directly, many have emailed me and said that’s where they found me. In fact, another artist who heard me on Jango emailed me about a collaboration just yesterday. Still, I can only verify maybe 5% of my (as of today) 419 fans that way.

  23. Jango’s new ‘Pop-Score’ system is crediting the top five weekly artists with 5,000 free plays each week. The top five this week have a total of 747, 57, 47, 16, and just 7 registered fans. How can it be that an artist with just 7 fans can realistically be a top performer?

    In the same one week period our band, Escape Route 36, acquired 91 new ‘fans’ yet wasn’t featured. Something doesn’t add up or someone isn’t playing fair!

  24. That seems suspicious to me too Toby! I suppose they’re still refining the PopScore algorithm. I suspect that certain ratios are calculated, but with those bands the scale is so small that the results are inaccurate.

    Have you asked Jango about it directly? They’ve always responded to my inquiries quickly.

    Thanks for doing the detective work and letting us know!

  25. Toby – I will also be waiting to hear what you hear. My 15 year old surprised me yesterday by saying all her friends loved Jango. A good sign. But still frustrated by the lack of response to bulletins/emails. (For your comparison interest – Miché Fambro now has 4684 plays, 310 likes, 207 fans, and 50 views since we started on 12/7/09 – don’t really know how that stacks up…) Anyway – with limited marketing funds, really need to decide if this is a worthy investment.

  26. The question remains…despite any number of “fans” and despite how many people listen to Jango (which may be many), how many are music buyers? In other words, how much with you gain in terms of return on investment? If you’re spending hundreds of dollars to pile up fans, but your net resulting sales are only $10 or $20, then is it worth it? If you only think in terms of the satisfaction in knowing you’ve been heard, then I suppose it is worth it. From a business standpoint, I’m convinced the financial return is not worth it…at all. I’ve played enough with Jango using three different bands to see that resulting sales are minimal (or nothing at all). In fact, getting people to even accept a free CD when offered was a challenge.

    -Todd

  27. Todd, I agree the ROI is rubbish for us too. So far I can only pin down 2 CD sales but maybe there is more in the iTunes pipeline via Tunecore. In any case there is no chance in my view that this will anywhere near pay for the investment.

    Perhaps this is partly a symtpom of the ‘music is free’ culture that now purvades. Here in the UK 90% of all downloads are illegal and free. And we know the revenue from the other 10% is pathetic anyway. The reality is that the money supply for the industry has been all but switched off compared with the traditional record/CD buying business model.

    Perhaps it’s best to approach it as ‘art’ rather than ‘business’ and just enjoy the freedom of expression. That’s what we did with the ER36 album and had a great time and got some nice positive feedback. The only problem is, we still have to eat! Is that what 10cc meant by ‘Art for Art Sake, Money for God’s Sake’?

  28. Hi Gang,

    First off I have to say that we love Brian’s blog here and are as pleased as can be that there’s such a healthy discussion of Airplay that just keeps on going. I’m dropping in to explain a little more about PopScore today.

    I’ll address Toby first and say that yes, you can have a better PopScore with only 7 fans over someone who has 1000 because it’s not just measured by fans. It’s also measured by listeners that don’t like your song, skip song, like song etc etc etc. Then there’s a ratio involved as well by plays so you can’t just buy your way to a great score. We spent months coming up with an algorithm that worked, listening to 1000s of songs to make sure that it was truly reflective of good quality music…but for more detailed info, do check out our blog post on it as well, and feel free to join that conversation as well.

    http://jangoairplay.blogspot.com/2009/12/more-on-popscore-how-it-works.html

    Happy Juggling

    -Jango

  29. It boils down to a very real factor–> people listening to Jango, Pandora, etc. are people who enjoy a FREE stream of commercial free music. If they were folks who spend money on music, they’d probably be listening to their CD’s or their iTunes / Media Player music library on shuffle for their favorites anyway.

    So, pay to have people listen to your music for the satisfaction of knowing it is heard…but don’t expect a proportionate gain in terms of sales.

    If you want to increase sales, focus any promotion on an audience of music buyers. Promote where people are shopping.

    -Todd

  30. Todd,

    Agreed: “If you want to increase sales, focus any promotion on an audience of music buyers. Promote where people are shopping.” Any practical suggestions?

    Re the secret Jango Popscore formula or ‘algorithm’, the jury’s out for us. I’ll check each week while our campaign is running to see how we are compare and report back here. So far it looks like it’s failing to support us fairly. A top Popscore with 7 fans just can’t be right. Who knows… Jango obviously do but we don’t and we’re in no position to do anything about it.

    If Jango doesn’t deliver for us we’ll move on. Any minute now Tunecore will do a deal with Spotify so we’ll see what we can do there. The Spotify listen to buy ratio is allegedly quite good.

    Best,
    Toby

  31. As for promoting where music is sold, that would have to focus on stores, or on band sites where there is an easy shopping interface (either for physical or digital download). Any place where the users are there particularly to find new music and buy it, that’s the key.

    I have the advantage of running a genre-specific store and for years the best advertising I have seen is where the artists promote in partnership with the store directly to customers who are already buying music. In the past I have shipped out thousands of free promo CD’s– usually samplers with tracks by several artists, but also CD’s with a couple tracks by single bands. CD’s are cheap to make if you do minimal packaging. Make promo discs with the band and album info printed on the discs and insert them in sleeves with windows. Super-cheap. Then give them away through mail-order stores that are willing to add them to outgoing customer shipments. Again, these go to people who are already buying music. They love getting free stuff, and if they like what they hear, they’ll likely buy more.

    Another place to look at is Amazon.com using all their various tools like listmania lists, tags, recommendations, reviews, etc. They also have marketing packages, but the downside is that they are pricey. I’ve done a couple of their “buy x / add y” campaigns and email recommendation campaigns, and yes, my sales went up on the spotlighted CDs. But not to the extent that it covered the cost of the campaign.

    I admit that I’m “old school” so I still work primarily in the dying CD market. But I’m certain that some digital sellers also have handy tools in place for promoting on their websites, since they too want to sell more music to their customers.

    -Todd

  32. Todd,

    That’s really helpful thank you. The idea of targeting the promotion to music ‘buyers’ rather than ‘listeners’ makes great sense. And your hands-on experience provides a very powerful argument. I’m already thinking this through and planning how we can put it into effect for our project.

    Best
    Toby

  33. I would’ve jumped in earlier, but a stomach bug is keeping me sidelined.

    While the ROI may not be that great, I’m anticipating a future where either a subscription-based or ad-supported model is the norm. The vast majority of fans won’t buy music, other than some blanket “tax” in their cable, phone, and/or internet bill. Our main income from recordings will be in the form of royalties. If that turns out to be the case, expanding our fanbase will pay off more than fighting over the remaining scraps in the CD market.

    Or maybe that won’t happen… ;)

  34. Jango and t61 update:

    Our band did not feature in the top 5 Popscore list again this week. In the week we pulled 130 NEW fans and now have 598 fans in total. The weekly update email says we have 160 total fans for some reason so their figures are not consistent which doesn’t inspire any confidence.

    The top 5 performers this week have TOTAL fans of 47, 41, 27, 293 and 652 so once again this all looks very inconsistent. As we are not allowed to understand the popscore calculation we are effectively shooting in the dark. Clearly it’s in the interests of Jango’s business model that artists spend money shooting in the dark, otherwise we would be allowed to understand exactly how all this works. But we are not.

    Sales are non-existent. Actually I can pin down just one CD sale despite a large number of positive comments Jango. I agree with Todd’s view on this point. We are effectively buying a “warm feeling” that our music is being listened to – if even these figures are real. Jango users appear to be ‘listeners’ and music buyers – not for us anyway.

    The ‘email the fans’ facility is useless as it’s not email at all – it’s a message board. As 80-90% of fans don’t open the messages it’s a waste of time. Also Jango won’t allow you to mail all fans; you have to paste messages in one at a time which is silly and time consuming. The ‘message board’ is only reaching those who log in and open the message so it’s probably the same sort of percentage at best. You are not allowed to include any links in either the ‘emails’ or the message board. If Jango market that we can ‘email our fans’ then I don’t see why they can’t make this happen. It would be much more exciting to be able to know our artist communications were going to our fans email accounts – so long as they were properly constructed so as not to trigger spam filters (which is not rocket science). It feels like the mentality is to put barriers between artists and fans rather than genuinely allow us to openly communicate.

    My conclusion is that Jango is not ‘artist friendly’ and spending money to buy plays is a complete waste of money unless, as said above, you like the idea of receiving a handful of rushed, often mis-typed and ususally very short comments.

    t61 is another thing altogether. We have been on this site for a week and it cost nothing other than time to ‘get into it’. It is fun and interesting too. We have acheived more direct, thoughtful and meaningful comment, sold more music and can communicate directly with our listeners, which is excellent. I highly recommend reading Brian’s intro:

    http://passivepromotion.com/what-artists-should-know-about-thesixtyone

    I hope my comments are helpful for others.

  35. Toby, congratulations on your success on t61! You’ve got a hit on your hands!

    While I share some of your frustrations with Jango, I want to clarify that recently they changed their messaging system to send out actual emails. My response rate is still terrible, but there you go. I make a habit of posting a quick introduction as a bulletin once per week, but nothing seems to come of it.

    As for PopScore, my friend Rain’s is 96 right now! I’ve gotten into the low 90’s before, but that’s impressive. She’s just getting started, so her fan count is probably under 100, like most of the other bands you cited. Maybe Jango listeners are more likely to respond to songs they haven’t heard before? I can understand why they keep the inner workings of the system a mystery. If they released the exact mechanics of the algorithm, it would be gamed.

    I still think Jango is better than traditional radio promo, hands down.

  36. I just wanted to add my two cents.

    I’ve been using Jango for about a month now, but I’ve been using it lightly. I’ll admit that the “ROI” is not really there financially, but I am really only trying to get my music in people’s ears… that’s really why I do it, not for sales.

    My band has had pop scores of 98, 94, and it’s currently 97. And that’s based on 50-100 plays each week. I play our tracks conservatively, just to test response. So I’ve concluded that it doesn’t matter how many fans you have, it’s the OVERALL proportion of likes, dislikes, skips and make em’, break em’.

    That said, I really like Jango as a resource to get your music heard. Oh, and I just sent two emails to two new fans yesterday, and I heard back from both of them.

    The other thing I wanted to mention is that it takes a truly great song, that stops a listener in their tracks to actually want to make a purchase. Or even want to get more info on the band… While someone might “Like” your song, it’s gonna take a commercial quality, excellent track to get more than that. Because that’s what we’re being compared to, and played amongst.

  37. Good stuff Adam! I’m impressed with your numbers! And here I thought my getting a 94 last week was an accomplishment. They’re grading on quite a curve.

    What’s even more amazing is that, if I’m understanding you correctly, you sent two messages out through their messaging system and got responses to both. My response rate has been close to 1%, and I know Rain messaged a couple hundred “fans” the other day to a similar response.

  38. Interesting. We’ll test the email response again. Last time it was zero for around 200 messages but maybe that was before they changed it to actually emailing rather than the message-board cop-out. I’ll report back.

  39. Hi Toby,

    Jango here again, I dropped you an e.mail last week to help with Targeting for ER36 so we can try and increase that PopScore but I never heard back from you.

    We’re always here…hit me up on labels@jango.com

    The Juggler

  40. Thanks Jango Jugglers. Email of 7 Jan received discussing PopScore and email of 12 Jan received re the errors on the stats reports.

    Apologies for not replying!
    Toby

  41. Cool Toby,

    I see your PopScore is up 2 points to 84 this week which is cool, but I’m sure if you deleted all the 1970’s bands from ER36’s ‘similars’ targets and replaced them with new bands that ‘relate’ better with ER36 their score would definitely improve.

    Give me the heads up if you re-target so I can watch too. It’s all assumptions til the plays happen.

    Happy Juggling

    -JJ

  42. It’s funny, I never knew where we stood in the scheme of things – as far as pop scores go. It’s cool to be able to gauge off others.

    Thanks for a great post Brian.

  43. Oh yah, and you’re understanding me correctly… I messaged two people to thank them for their comments, and both messaged back.

    Although, I do think that the graphic interface they use to alert members that they have new messages is too inconspicuous, you can barely notice it.

  44. One more thing,

    I’ve noticed that with premium targeting turned on, and customizing the ages and geography of listeners, it makes a BIG difference in pop scores.

  45. Adam,

    But at what cost? Doubling the costs of paid listens for an increased PopScore? mmm, not sure that’s a good use of the marketing budget.

    We’ve now got 975 registered fans and around 150 lovely comments. But I’m not sure, as per Todd’s comments, this amounts to anything more than a “warm feeling”.

    Still, better to have a warm feeling than a cold one!
    Best,
    Toby

  46. I totally agree Toby. A “warm feeling” isn’t worth anything when you’re talking marketing dollars.

    I’ve been using only the bonus credits for quite a while now… so I guess I’m less careful about how I use them. :)

  47. I have to say the new email feature on Jango is excellent. We have 31 real email addresses which we can download in csv so we can email in on go via email-merge or whatever. Brilliant. Although this is only 3% of our ‘fans’ it feels like the hottest leads.

    We’ll try some direct marketing and report back!

    Nice one Jango.

  48. Hey, I just wanted to share some exciting news…

    My band just got a popscore of 100, and got 5,000 free plays put into our account today. Friggen cool.

    That’ll help our Jango marketing budget!

  49. Congratulations Adam!

    My friend David of Odd Year got 100 the week before, and he showed me his stats. From what I’ve seen so far, the winners have an absurdly low number of plays for the week – just over the 50 required.

    Was that the case for you as well? If so, it makes sense. With lots of plays, our numbers start to average out, but with just the minimum, they can easily skew one way or the other.

  50. Thanks Brian!

    Yes, it was only with about 100 plays. That was typically all I was doing each week. After 150 plays this week, we’re at 99. But I also have premium targeting enabled, and am playing songs only at certain times of the day.

  51. I bet if you maintain the same strategy, you’ll win enough plays to stay at 150 per week indefinitely. Thanks for sharing the juicy details! I may try something similar when my plays get close to running out.

  52. hey gang,

    The play count thing is not actually the case, we work really hard to make this accurate and not something that can be gamed. But saying that, we do want you to be eligible after only 50 plays and it be an accurate measure.

    but just for your notes I did the research on this weeks top 5 and here’s their play counts for the past week.

    100+
    500+
    4700+
    250+
    50+

    hope this helps…

    I’d say it’s much more about targeting than it is about playcount

    -The Jango Juggler

  53. It’s not as mysterious as it sounds, it’s just about positive vs. negative actions divided by plays…then everyone is put into their ranks…the code is really about how you target…and I know you, Brian, have been doing well. But basically if you get a good % of the people who hear you like you vs a low % of people who don’t then you’ll have a good PopScore…as someone on our blog said…’targeting death metal at iron & wine fans’ will not get you a good PopScore no matter how great your music is.

  54. Hi Brian,

    News flash: SoundExchange don’t collect the royalties from Jango (I have an email confirming this). I’m trying to find out who does.

  55. By the way,
    I don’t think Jango pays royalties at all. I’ve emailed them twice now and they’ve responded with the same cryptic, vaguely worded email, saying something about how they’re in the process of submitting data to PRO’s which will probably take about a year (I’m not making this up) and “it is not uncommon for an internet radio to pay 5 percent of their revenue to the combined entities of ASCAP, BMI and SESAC”, again, whatever that means…

  56. Judging from what I take in from Last.fm, I wouldn’t worry about royalties. We’re talking less than a buck per quarter!

    My current Jango stats:

    Total Plays: 57634
    Plays This Week: 2154
    Total Fans: 1816
    New Fans This Week: 74
    Total Comments: 417
    Email Addresses Shared: 37

  57. At first I thought folks were being nice after a week on JANGO. Then I had to readjust.. I know I’m not wack.. I just don’t have the BIGGer (target) BUDGET yet. Nevertheless, I am humbled by the cold market responses to no end that I have recieved.

    If Jango is a format to get music heard then its doing what it was intended to do. The great part is folks are responding from the areas I wanted to reach. It’s just a form of promtions and at any record label marketing and promotions is a pricy / major component of a record release. I suppose when we use our own money we are more skeptical however Jango is one of the best cold market test sites that I’ve seen for new artist exposure.

    As said earlier by others, promote potential the sales of your CD or Digi Download on sites for music consumers as JANGO is a site for streamers. I found out about it at work while my collegaue was listening to one of my favorite songs. I then joined and put my music up and it has opened doors that artistically I thought were closed.

    We must hang in there and keep working our music the best we can, its an open market and there is alot of great indi records on the net.

    Torrey Crowe

  58. I hope I haven’t missed this discussion entirely. I’ve got plenty of juicy tales about all things Jango and a treasure trove of fun facts to share (including, “The PopScore — Revealed, Explained & Ignored!). Be back in a day or two…..

    /J

  59. When you first start with Jango, you’re faced with a “love ‘em or leave ‘em” situation. Far from slick, Jango is like Six Flags on a rainy day: most of the “real” rides are off-line, services and concessions are closed, and since nobody likes bearing bad news, staff is conspicuously absent to redress a complaint or cheerfully explain that your day is going to suck on every level. Of course you have a great time, in part because of the heroic graciousness you display by not letting anything get in the way of your good time.

    But there’s a limit to everything. Jango took its customers’ graciousness for granted and, mistaking it for complacency, proceeded to add insult to injury, eventually finding the one thing that their restrained and long-suffering customers would not abide: being ignored. When Jango rolled out their PopScore feature — a monolithic ranking engine and weekly contest that seemed to get everything wrong from day one — the outcry of questions, complaints, and conspiracy theories was deafening. That it fell on the deaf ears of Jango only made the cries louder. As the months went by, the weekly announcement of the PopScore Top 5 in Jango’s Airplay blog became a forum for questions, concerns, and — more and more — explosive emotional outbursts and wholesale flaming.

    Comments from early on were diplomatic….

    “The PopScore is a ranking system, the score itself a judgment. Human beings are almost powerless NOT to seek the validation and approval of those who judge them. So you’ve made us want to please the PopScore, but you don’t tell us how.”

    “Even though the PopScore has favored me from the get-go, it has pushed me away from Jango. Simply put, I don’t enjoy jockeying for position and being ranked by that damn thermometer. It has changed the Jango experience from one where I felt qualified (by fan response to my music) to one where I am being quantified (by an opaque and meaningless value system).”

    In recent weeks, less so…

    “…Jango ignores us and stonewalls all questions, complaints, accusations, and challenges. The PopScore continues to create the loudest outcry, probably because it is so obviously *wrong*. But Jango’s sins are greater in number and seriousness than just the PopScore. Jango has been called upon by its customers to answer everything from tech support questions to charges of fraud and illegal business practices. The site is riddled with errors and unfinished dead-ends. Many features do not do what they claim to do. Jango’s reporting is insufficient, unreliable, and poorly-defined. Jango’s site and services are off-line for days at a time. Nothing is documented.

    So come on, Jango: answer the challenges made here. Just because you can’t defend your actions doesn’t mean you won’t have to sometime. Pretty soon, we won’t be asking (and griping/whining/complaining) for answers and explanations: we’ll be demanding them …and much, much more.”

    That’s all for now, but I’ll be back with highlights and insights straight from the horse’s mouth (i.e., Jango brass, Jango PopScore winners) as well as the actual “math” behind the PopScore, and Jango’s strong feelings, other strong feelings, and even “other other” actions about “gaming” the PopScore.

    JSterritt

  60. Thanks for your input Jeremy!

    Your conspiratorial description of the Jango experience doesn’t match my own. Of course some people aren’t happy with the PopScore system, and no ranking algorithm is perfect. If they spell out the formula, artists will game the system. I see it as a way to get some free plays. If I do, great. If not, no skin off my back.

    Personally, I’m thrilled about their new throttling feature. I’m not sure why that would indicate any sort of tailspin. In fact, I asked for that very feature as it was just about to be unveiled. I had added 9000 plays and burned through 1000 in a day (and got 16 new email addresses – yay!). I look forward to being able to slow things down without removing targets.

    After I finish my album and have a little more time on my hands, I’d like to revisit Jango in a new article. For now, I’m still quite happy with my results. New fans are regularly sharing their email addresses, and I get occasional sales and fanmails from them. It’s hard to argue with that!

  61. A “throttling” feature is completely necessary for those of us who find value in using Jango as a promotional, get-it-out-there tool. I want to meet the demand for each and every play opportunity and I don’t want to have to do anything beyond pay for my plays. I was paying $200/month for 10K spins, but those spins were tapped in less than 3 weeks. The next “monthly plan” is $500! In order to use Jango, I had to make sure I had play credits, buy and dole out á la cart plays to the tune of $300+/month. It begged the question: what service does Jango provide?

    Today’s “throttling” feature is a travesty. NO ONE’s music is being heard, but that’s not the worst of it. Jango shares almost none of the data it collects about our paid plays with us. What it does share is off-line more than a full day each week, and it is often incorrect. Using the scant play stats we have, Airplay customers must do their own record keeping, analysis, and comparison. The only way one can use Jango to find out what targeting tweaks work, what music is getting traction — to generally use Jango as the tool it’s marketed as — is by controlled, costly, and laborious experiments. Today, Jango effectively took that away from its customers. Experiments (and PopScore speculation) for the week: ruined. The ability to compare next week’s performance with last week’s: sorry, start over. The $$$ you spent: not coming back. Even if all you want is to get heard and damn the expense: Nope, we’re in the throttling business now.

    This is the second time since I started in December that Jango has without warning changed the rules of the game. The last time, they changed the definition of “fan” out of the blue. This was nothing short of revaluing their currency…and to make it worse, they left everyone to figure out on their own what the new value was.

    Is Jango determined to keep us from using Airplay for its stated purpose? Why do they bomb us back to square one every few months? What’s their F*#%!^? problem???

  62. I’m not following Jeremy. No one’s music is being heard? I’m still getting plays, so I’m not able to connect the dots with what you’re saying. Maybe I’ll spot something off when I get my weekly status email?

    What other data would you like to have? I look at what my “fans” listen to, and which of my songs are liked the most. I guess it would be nice to see what songs prompted listeners to share their email address, if that’s even possible.

    As for changing the rules, I guess they only matter if you view your stats as a competition with other artists. I can see how someone who said they “like” your music might be considered a “fan.” I personally don’t care one way or the other. If I’m reaching new listeners who like my music enough to share their email address so I can add them to my mailing list, I’m happy. In my eyes, Jango has only gotten better since I wrote this article over a year ago.

  63. As I began my last comment, a “throttling” feature is completely necessary, because without one the only way to keep plays within, say, a $200 or $500 per month budget is to painstakingly visit Jango every day (at least) and allocate plays in small batches as needed. This is Jango’s own prescribed method for throttling plays. The alternative is to have no plays heard during the last week (or more) of each monthly cycle.

    Since the new throttling feature considers your allocated plays, not your monthly plan, all Jango Airplay artists who budget their plays as described above, and all artists with á la cart plays and $10 or $30 monthly plans, saw their rate of plays slow to a virtual standstill.

    Jango came through as promised with the UI component of their throttling feature: an on/off switch which allows artists to choose whether or not to avail themselves of the new feature. However, most Airplay artist’s plays were slowed to a crawl for a day before Jango thought to mention their new feature (“Have Your Plays Slowed Down?”). It was another day before Jango made that feature — of use to only some Airplay artists — optional. Given their track record, I think even Jango was surprised that the “fix” was delivered so quickly (they wrote: “Even more exciting is that you will soon be able to turn this pacing on or off right inside your artist dashboard”). In Jango-speak, “soon” means “don’t hold your breath.”

    For two days, Jango’s imaginative way of introducing a new feature (unannounced and backwards) left Airplay artists high and dry: first with no explanation for plays grinding to a halt, then with an unsatisfactory explanation and a vague promise of a fix “soon.” Jango remedied their error quickly, but that is cause for a collective sigh of relief, not a pat on the back for Jango.

    PS: I haven’t received a weekly status update in months! You’re lucky. As for play stats, they’re off-line so frequently that they can’t be relied upon as a way to collect data for targeting experiments. More on that later, if you’d like.

  64. So to summarize, they introduced an important new feature and got it working in a couple of days. In the meantime, I’m still waiting for Apple to make wifi work on my iPad, and they’re supposed to have the best customer service in the industry.

    Sure, I’d like to hear more about why you can’t rely on Jango’s data for targeting. You’re probably doing a more sophisticated analysis than I am. I don’t use premium targeting at all, just genre and similar bands.

    Now I’d better go and turn throttling on!

  65. That is the long and short of it — although on the front lines, a couple of days can be a long time. All that fuss over nothing (I hope).

    Throttle on!

  66. Just got my weekly stats email. With approximately 1050 plays for each of the six songs I allocated credits to, it presents a clear picture of which are grabbing peoples’ interest. They range from 71-120 “likes.” Incredibly useful. I’m not sure what other stats I need!

  67. Hi Brian, and all, from Fairbanks, Alaska. Brian, I haven’t met Britt yet, but I think you worked with her, and she’s in touch with my daughter and I hope to meet her this summer.

    Anyway, I’ve been playing my daughter’s music on Jango. My daughter is Mariah Ver Hoef,
    http://www.mariahverhoef.com
    http://www.jango.com/music/Mariah+Ver+Hoef
    I started in mid-January (by the way, I’ve followed your blog since last fall, and it’s really great — thanks). My daughter just turned 16, and released her CD last summer. The week before last, we made the top 5 in the Jango pop score,
    http://airplay.jango.com/blog/2010/06/jango-popscore-top-5.html

    First, without giving a lot of reasons, I really do like Jango. I’ve been frustrated at times, as has been amply demonstrated by others in these comments. However, in the end, it’s the only place where I can actually get my daughter’s music to an audience without depending on someone else deciding whether or not to play it. That’s the bottom line, and it’s the best value I’ve found so far (compared to, say, last.fm).

    OK, on to the pop score, the real reason that I’m writing. I have a Ph.D. in statistics, so I’m always fascinated by numbers. Look, there’s simply a lot of great music out there. To win the pop score, you have to have an incredibly amazing song (which every musician thinks they have), or you can do your due diligence and look for patterns. After experimenting with different similar artists, certain days of the week, certain times of the day, etc., I could improve Mariah’s score. I also experimented with targeting for sex and age. Then, the week before Mariah made the top 5, Jango released a new feature on the statistics of ratings by country. I jumped right on that using targeting for sex, age, and geography (the US was not her best country, by a long shot), along with time of day (need to turn off pacing for that) and time of week , and we made the top 5.

    Before I get flamed too badly, let me say that I only tried to “win” the pop score about every other week, and I would abandon it if I didn’t get a good score on the very first day (more on that later). I’m not obsessed by it, and I fully realize that it’s an imperfect measure. For example, I notice that certain ages, sexes, and nationalities increased the pop score, but they *never* leave their email addresses. Other groups (younger in general) are much more likely to leave an email address. So, which is the better barometer of a “true fan?” Which would you rather pay for?

    The main reason I wanted to get Mariah in the top 5 was 5000 free plays, plus I was curious about any promotional effect it might have. I must say that I’m not sure what is going on yet. In the week that the top 5 was announced, Mariah’s organic plays went from about 30/day to 50/day, with a spike around the two days of the blog announcement on Jango. However, suddenly, this week on Tuesday, she jumped to over 250 plays/day. I don’t know if Jango is promoting her somewhere, or some algorithm kicked in and just started inserting her into more radio stations. That alone has generated another 1200 plays this week, and 100’s of profile views per day and the most new fans she’s ever gotten.

    One final tip, to win, the fewer plays the better. It’s a statistical thing. Fewer plays means more variation. One week you might start down, but the next, you’ll start high. If you start with a good score based on only 50 plays (say 96 or better), then stick. Your score will go up as everyone else’s averages out. The popscore was explained in its basics, and it is normalized every day. Think of it as a percentage ranking. You can actual improve your score by not playing because everyone else’s “favorable” statistics average out, and you float to the top.

    So, now hopefully you see, as I see, that the popscore may be imperfect, but it was worth trying to attain. That being said, now I’ve gone back to general plays, and we’re getting a lot of email addresses again and I don’t spend 2 credits per play. Anyway, my advice is to pay attention to your stats, try to win the popscore occasionally for the free plays and promotional effect, but I wouldn’t attach my artistic ego to it.

    There is, of course, a lot more to say about Jango, and I really appreciate all of the comments about payola and Jango’s place in general. However, I just wanted to give my perspective, and a few tips, on the pop score in particular.

    Best Wishes, Jay

  68. Wonderful analysis Jay! I’m really happy to see your efforts paid off. That’s a pretty monumental jump in plays, and an even more dramatic jump in profile views. Are you using Google Alerts? If not, definitely set some up to track down where your daughter’s music is being discussed and linked to. I suspect a mention somewhere had a hand in the increase.

    I had a hunch that with careful targeting I could raise my score. I’ve just been too lazy to do it! After I wrap up my new album this month, I’ll have time to start focusing on the blog again. I definitely want to revisit Jango with a new article. Tons of features have been added since I wrote this post, like finally being able to email all your fans at once (though all I got back in response was chirping crickets).

    I’m sure you’ll both love Britt. She’s really great to work with.

  69. Thanks Brian. I play close attention to Jango, and have more thoughts on it, but I’ll save them for a rainy day. I noticed that you’ve slowed down on the blog! Mariah’s working on her CD too, so I understand. That’s why I do all of this! Let the musicians make the music; that’s what I say. I’d be curious to hear more about grooveshark, too. We started using Taxi, and I know you had somethings to say about them. Along those lines, musicxray.com looks interesting. I’m wondering if anyone has used it? I’m sort of wary without some quality control. So, you better get back to your blog… we’re all depending on you, you know? (wink, like our ex-governor).

    Best Wishes, Jay

  70. I’ve dabbled with Grooveshark and musicxray, but not enough to write anything authoritative. I’m looking forward to having some new music to promote so I can dip my toes into some new sites. Thanks for the vote of confidence!

  71. Thanks for your info!
    The results have panned out well for me!
    I bought 1000 plays and got 98 fans off of em.
    Definitely a nice way to put your music into the ears of the people its intended for!

  72. I love your article. You actually confirmed many things that I suspected.

    I really don’t take the reports as exact science because many people don’t include their age or location, etc., on their profile. I recall having a pop score of 70, then the next day it dropped to zero. I only pay the minimum fee and market my own music because I could never figure how Jango does it. It did not seem profitable for me to spend more money. I like situations where there is a win/win deal. I just didn’t see any benefit in spending more dollars, so I thank you for trying it & giving us the results. But for the $10 a month fee I pay, Jango is worth it & I’ve honestly received some benefit from it. You can load tons of profile info (videos, bio, fans, comments, etc.) on one page. I have referred other radio stations to review my profile to see pics, comments, fan & listen to my music, etc. I just don’t understand the popscore calculations & how and when we get royalties! But keep in mind that Jango could still be working out the kinks for us!!! It is a great concept.

  73. Joyce, my advice is to not worry about PopScore. I don’t believe it ever goes to zero. It was probably Monday, in which case Jango didn’t have enough data to calculate a score.

    I suggest measuring your success by the number of new fans and email addresses you get. The more money you spend, the more those numbers should go up.

  74. Popscore has changed just recently. You now need 100 plays for at least ONE song within a week to get a score. I confirmed this via email since I too suddenly didn’t have a popscore. This means you’ll probably need to increase the speed of your plays in order to qualify.

    Cheers.

  75. I’m still signed up for the $200/month plan. My current stats are:

    122677 plays (99259 paid), 11669 total likes, 4883 fans, 4090 profile views

    Most importantly to me, 224 listeners shared their email addresses, and went straight to my ReverbNation mailing list!

  76. This afternoon I logged into Facebook to find three friend requests. All three discovered me on Jango and apparently noticed my mass email inviting them to connect with me on Facebook and Twitter. Not only that, but all three had posted status updates about my music!

    So again, I doubt I’m making my money back in sales, but I’m definitely gaining new fans through Jango.

  77. Brian (or anyone), it seems like the most important concrete result of using Jango is getting email address. Do you have a sense of a dollar amount a real new-fan email address is worth to you?

    1. I like using email addresses as a metric because it’s easy to measure. “Fan” counts and “likes” are useless, profile views are trivial, and sales are impossible to track. So not factoring in the oft-touted “exposure” from the 8000 plays, I guess I’m paying about $5 per email address on the $200/month plan. It’s worth it to me because each listener heard my music and opted in without receiving anything in return. That’s different from your typical “squeeze page” (like on colortheory.com) that offers an enticement like free mp3s.

  78. 58 hours ago I registered with Jango Airplay, paid for 1000 plays, and added three songs . . . but the songs are still pending, even though (I think) they were supposed to go live after 24-48 hours.

    1. Hi Sheldon. I started playing my daughter’s music on Jango in early January. I can pretty much guarantee that you won’t make many sales in such a short time. I thought the same when I started, that people would hear her songs, fall in love with them, and run out and buy the CDs. My advice is similar to many others, all I can say is it will take a while, and it is very difficult to build loyal fans, and they are the only ones that will likely buy music. I’ve been on the $100/month plan since January, and Mariah was #1 on Jango last week, based on the much maligned PopScore.
      http://airplay.jango.com/blog/2010/11/jango-airplay-top-10_08.html
      Still, CD’s are not exactly flying off the shelf. However, it is starting to pick up, partly too because Mariah just released another CD 3 weeks ago. We have picked up several hundred emails, and a recent feature of Jango is that when you email your “fans,” it WILL go to their real email account (there is an internal one on Jango that no one uses).

      So here’s my bottom line. Like most radio, you need to get people to listen to your songs many times for them to fall in love with you. Therefore, play a long time to a very small crowd at first. Pick a state, or a small country, and target your music there based on a small pool of similar artists and possibly even a single sex and age group. After experimenting a while, you’ll figure out which of these respond best to your music. So, we’re at 45,300 plays on Jango and it’s still not paying the bills. Still, of all of the internet stuff that I’ve tried, I think Jango is the best, for the reasons stated above. You can get your music listened to, multiple times, by real listeners, not just a bunch of other musicians (such as OurStage, …, even YouTube in my experience), who are all trying to get each other to buy each other’s music.

      Well, there’s a lot more to say, but I think I gave you the punch lines. Jango is great in my opinion, but it will take time. Hopefully you’ll learn it quicker than I did an get to #1 soon!

      Best Wishes,
      Jay Ver Hoef
      Fairbanks, AK
      Manager for Mariah Ver Hoef
      http://www.mariahverhoef.com

  79. Ok, I’m addicted to Jango and plan to keep sending them money. But I’m wondering if others have noticed some glitches. First, the play stat totals are often, though not always, inaccurate. The “total plays” and “paid plays” columns are the most frequently erroneous (and not just a little bit). Second, the “song likes/plays” column in the geographic chart is off. The only number that appears is zero, which is inaccurate.

    Given the above errors, I wonder about the accuracy of the “fan overlap” report, among other things.

    I emailed Jango a week ago about problem #1, but only received an unhelpful, generic message.

    1. Whenever you email airplay@jango.com, you get an autoresponse back telling you when to expect a “real” reply. Hopefully that’s what you’re referring to, and they cleared up any confusion.

      I believe some of the stats refresh on different schedules. I know they have a big daily refresh around 3 p.m. EST. My guess is that it works out correctly in the end.

      As for the fan overlap report, I often see The Killers and Death Cab for Cutie. My guess is it’s less about my music, and more about the popularity of those bands.

  80. Thanks for the prompt response, Brian!

    I received the auto-response on November 20, but nothing after that. Unfortunately, the numbers are not working out. I keep a close eye on them and they are frequently erroneous. Anyone else?

  81. Hi Sam and Brian,

    I’ve been using Jango for almost a year now, and I check it daily. I play my daughter’s music there. I also pay close attention to stats. First, the “play” and “like” stats are often mis-matched shortly after midnight Eastern time, but they do get corrected.

    The geographic stats are a hopeless mess. They used to be useful, but then, right before labor day, Jango went to a “by-week-by-country” (it used to be cumulative by country only), and it’s been screwed up since. I’ve written Jango several times on that, and while they are generally helpful, they haven’t bothered to respond to me on that one. So, yes, the geographic data are useless at the moment, and I’m wondering if it will ever get fixed. I’d be sort of embarrassed by it if I were them.

    Finally, I find the fan overlap is not very useful by itself. For Mariah’s music, for example, I often find the Beatles are the top band, but that’s only because a lot of people still listen to them, whereas Mariah’s music is more singer/songwriter in the vein of Colbie Caillat/Michelle Branch, etc. If you want to use fan overlap, it is best to “adjust” due to overall popularity. One thing I do is use Google trends to scale. If you find an artist that is fairly high in the fan overlap, but they are “relatively” obscure (using, e.g., Google trends), then that is an artist you should put in your “similar” group. This is essentially the same concept that Jango is using for “Fan Index” under Age/Gender, where to get the highest proportion of “likes” you need to correct for overall listener’s by age/gender.

    My overall sense is that the folks at Jango are fairly challenged statistically. They often don’t label their graphs, or do it incorrectly, even when they sort of get the basic idea such as the age/gender fan index. As a professor of statistics, I wouldn’t let even my undergraduate students get away with it. But, I don’t want to rag on Jango. I really think they are providing a great service, and they have made other improvements over the months, especially in ways to communicate with fans, while still protecting the quality of the listening experience for them.

    Well, I hope this helps.

    Best Wishes,
    Jay
    manager for Mariah Ver Hoef

    1. Thanks for your excellent response, Jay. Just to follow up on something you said, I’m having difficulty determining which other bands (especially current ones) I sound like, because the fan overlap report keeps naming big bands from the past, like The Beatles, The Who, Eagles, etc.

      Also, the fan index report seems useful, but it might only be a rough comparison, because there are no numbers AND no indication that it is to scale. Additionally, it is odd that next to the fan index report it states that the fan index report will be available soon, even though it is clearly available now.

    2. I confess I don’t look at my stats very often. I mainly look for email address shares, Facebook and Twitter adds, and sales. Of course, the only number I can track accurately email address shares.

      In selecting your artist targets, it might help to look at listener comments. I tend to see the same comparisons popping up again and again. I only have five targets selected, and one of them is so obscure that it almost doesn’t count.

      For geotargeting, I choose states and countries that have consistently ordered CDs from me over the years.

      One other “trick” I recently applied is a spoken voiceover at the begining of the song. I tell listeners they can listen to the whole album at colortheory.com. My like percentage has gone up a smidge since switching over those versions on the two songs I’m pushing.

      1. Another thing that I have found useful is, in the message box that accompanies the paid plays, to ask to add Mariah to one of their Jango stations if they like the song. I also do the same whenever she gets new fans and email addresses. If an artist is in a Jango radio station, they will be played more often as an “organic” play, and those are free of course. Mariah now gets about 100 organic plays a day, and they’ve definitely increased since I started that strategy.

        1. That’s a great idea Jay! I’m going to try asking fans who share their email address, in the email subscription confirmation. I’ve been averaging 130 organic plays a day, even for weeks where I didn’t do any paid plays. But I’ve got a lot of songs up!

  82. I have been on Jango about 6 months maybe with now 70 songs posted and played. Only recently have I begun to gain more fans, good comments and so, but few sales (Music linked to iTunes, etc). I would think that with 7 to 9 million listeners there would have been more movement by now. I am pleased with Jango from the perspective that without them I would not be on any kind of radio at all. I think the concept is solid and encouraging to new labels who otherwise could not get a foot in the music industry-door. I thank Jango.

    1. 70 songs? Maybe that’s why it’s taken so long to catch on. I’ve only been pitching two, to a very narrow audience, for months! I’d be interested to hear if your results improve by narrowing your focus.

  83. Jango has a useful (and I think brand new) feature that tracks listener plays in real time. For each play, it indicates one of your artist targets that is in the listener’s current station (and it also indicates if the fan liked your song). For instance, in my 300 plays today, Beatles fans were targeted 65 times and Matthew Sweet fans only 2 times (those were the extremes of my 11 targeted artists). It’s now clear why the Beatles appear in 5 of my 6 fan overlap reports and Matthew Sweet appears in none: it’s because my songs are played to Beatles fans much more often than to Matthew Sweet fans.

    1. That’s a pretty useful feature! I’m seeing the same sort of pattern. Most of my plays are to people targeting Death Cab for Cutie, but there’s the occasional Postal Service and Imogen Heap mixed in there too. Good to know!

    1. I’ve been using it, mainly to upload my entire discography. I haven’t done a paid campaign because it costs twice as much, and I don’t see any clear way to communicate with new fans.

  84. Hi Sam and Brian,

    I’ve tried two paid campaigns with Grooveshark, one in December and one two weeks ago. I got my money back both times because their reporting statistics are a mess at the moment. I’ve communicated several times with their lead programmer, and the problem is too many servers being added due to rapid growth. He said they would discontinue campaigns until they get the problem sorted out, but it’s been going on now for 3 months.

    I agree with Brian, except the good thing about Grooveshark is that once a user adds you to their playlist, they will listen again and again; for free to you. You can find who has added you to their playlists by creating a user account, searching yourself as an artist, and looking at playlist matches. Of course, it would be simpler if Grooveshark’s statistics reported this properly.

    Anyway, I like the more permanence of the playlist feature, so I was willing to try it to see how many daily “free” plays I got on Grooveshark that were equivalent to “organic” plays on Jango. The higher cost per play may have been worth it, but so far I can’t tell.

    1. Thanks Jay! That’s great info to have, especially since you are also a Jango veteran. I was actually planning on spending a few hundred bucks and writing a “What artists should know about Grooveshark” article, but the stats are so flaky and the guy in charge was really bad about responding to my emails. He offered me a discount and then never got back to me when I said I was ready to move forward.

      1. Hi Brian. I see that Grooveshark has now suspended radio campaigns. I corresponded with Dan Gua, the lead programmer (I think), and he was very quick to respond, very apologetic, and seemed quite earnest in getting things fixed. For that matter, I think if you look at your stats on Jango carefully, they are pretty screwed up too. That is, now that they instigated real-time listeners, the number of “thumbs up” don’t square with the “likes” on the reporting page, and neither squares with geographic reporting (which was great until last September, when they wrecked it and haven’t fixed it). I’m convinced the real-time stats are the only ones that are accurate. But, I’m not going to complain. I have my strategy, and Mariah was #1 on Jango again last week.

        1. Congratulations! Yeah, obviously something is working there for you. I corresponded with Evan at Grooveshark. Hopefully they’ll get things sorted out soon, as I know the service is very popular overall from the listener side of things.

          1. Thanks Brian. Yes, if you use Google trends, it appears that Grooveshark is approaching Pandora (in Google hits, anyway), and they both swamp Jango, which appears pretty stagnant. As a listener (my daughter is the artist!) I really like Grooveshark, so I’m eager to get her more play there.

        2. Thanks for the feedback, Jay. Jango’s real-time listener feed has been really useful (much more so than the fan overlap report), but as you pointed out, the data in the feed seems to conflict with the data on the reporting page. A possible explanation is that they used to have “like”, “love”, and “thumbs up” buttons. So perhaps if someone clicked “like” it wouldn’t always register as a “thumbs up” and vice versa. But now all three buttons seem to have merged into a single “thumbs up” button. I sent Jango two emails (spaced by about two weeks) about the apparent data inconsistency, but got no response. Anyway, the numbers don’t seem to be off by much.

          SamPageMusic.com

          1. Hi Sam,
            Thanks for your comments. The thing is, the “Likes” on the reporting page should be the sum of “Thumbs up” and clicking smiley faces for organic plays, so it should be GREATER than or equal to the number of just “Thumbs up” from the real-time feed. However, I’ve seen real-time “thumbs up” more than twice the “likes” on the reports page. So, that just doesn’t make any sense. I also tried contacting Jango once about geo-reporting especially (when it used to work I discovered that Mariah’s music was much more popular in Europe than elsewhere), and while Jango is generally very good at responding, I got nothing on that one.

  85. I started on Jango at the beg of March and I've been very pleased so far with the results. I only do the $30 a month plan but I may add credits if it's a good week. I have gotten worldwide exposure and over 200 fans + tons of likes and positive feedback. Your right that it's awesome that the email addresses go through and count on Reverbnation and your EPK. I didn't realize that right away either. I can only say through my own experience, it's well worth the money especially since I was excepted into ASCAP which means royalties per play. I've highly recommended it to my other friends in bands. The only thing that I wish they had was a ranking system like reverbnation does with the "Top 500" or whatever. They do the pop score but you really can't see how good your doing compared to all the other bands out of the top 10 of course. Over all it rocks, I have people listening to my songs from Greece to Brazil and US to Russia. It's awesome! Good luck with your endeavors.

  86. It's nice to hear you've had such a positive experience! Just to clarify, I'm manually adding the shared email addresses to ReverbNation, with a customized confirmation message. The royalties, if we ever receive them, will probably be negligible. From my understanding, they would be paid by SoundExchange, not ASCAP/BMI/SESAC.

  87. Yes, sorry I should have clarified but u do have to add the emails manually but I just meant it's a great way to get fans for reverbnation. I think as long as you don't go crazy buying credits it's a really good way to promote your band. I'm really new to the online radio world so I actually found a few other ones today that are free but you have to wait to get accepted, which is no big deal, so hopefully I'll be able to successfully use those as well. I appreciate the response and the article. I actually came accross it because I was searching for a way to find out info so I could compare how well my songs are doing compared to the avg artist on Jango. I want to know if my pace of fans is fast or avg, it would def be helpful, but overall it rocks. (and no I'm not a Jango employee :)

  88. I try to keep the pace as slow as possible, by selecting "normal" and the minimum 5 artist targets. It's still 100 plays per day minimum. I wouldn't worry about comparing yourself to other artists. There are so many variables, and ultimately it's about you connect with your future fans.

  89. I am an ex computer programmer who has worked for some of the largest firms in Manhattan. I have noticed on Jango that independent artists are unaware that most of their fans that show no picture and show no friends on their profile page and leave comments such as “good song”yep”,”smoooth”,”nice” and a whole host of other vague comments are all COMPUTER GENERATED. These people do not exist, accept in the Jango mainframe. This is done so you keep paying that monthly fee to have your songs played thinking that you’re attracting new fans. Come on people WAKE UP!!! Check out several different artists and you will see a constant pattern. This kind of stuff is obvious to me because I’ve been around it for most of my life. They are taking advantage of unknowing independent artists and no one is saying anything about it.

    1. Wow, that’s a strong accusation! If you look at the comments on my profile, at least half of them mention things specific to my music – song names, similar bands, etc. Some of the same commenters have messaged me and shared their email addresses. For what it’s worth, my listener account, which I set up to check out what the site is like from the other side, has no photo either.

      http://www.jango.com/music/Color+Theory

  90. Check ten different artists and you will see what I mean..I’ve been a computer programmer for 25 yrs and have set up programs like this hundreds of times..just google it and you will see I’m not the first one to notice this.

    1. Why have you set up programs like this hundreds of times? You create fake automated accounts for other businesses? Why should I check ten different artists when I know the comments on my profile are legit?

      I have no reason to doubt that Jango’s listeners are real people, as they form a large percentage of my current fanbase. Sure, others are skeptical, but that doesn’t mean they’re right.

      How about you prove it? Set up an account with a free 100 plays using the link on this page, and we’ll analyze the comments on your account in a week or so.

      1. It doesn’t really matter to this conversation what I used to do, but I will tell you this , it’s not just an accusation it’s the absolute TRUTH. You have comments listed as “Good beat”,”Nice Groove”,”Good Song”, “Nice Song_Good Luck”,”Coool”,”Quirky but Nice”,”hmmm.ok” and many others that are on other artists pages, vague comments!!! How does someone write “Good Song”…which song are they talking about and you see it on every artist that is paying for plays . Artists that just take the 100 free plays and don’t ever spend any money only have real fans, as few as they may be, but you won’t see any of these COMPUTER GENERATED FANS .These people all have no friends on their profile page because they only exist in Jango. I’m not saying you don’t have some fans,I’m sure you do, but I’m telling you these fabricated fans exist on many artists pages look for yourself. Maybe you don’t want to know because you are in with Jango…I’m not sure, but I’m not the first person to bring this to light, I’ve read many articles about this on the net.

        1. If what you used to do doesn’t matter, stop citing it as the source of your expertise. Sure, some comments could apply to any song. Why not put it to the test? Set up your profile now (don’t link to it here yet), and we’ll take a look after you’ve got some comments. The wilder the music, the better. :)

          1. You must be in with Jango..so I’ll bid you farewell…Blind to the facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          2. You have yet to present any facts, but I’ll share one with you: I’ve been using Jango for over two years now, and it’s been my #1 source of new fans.

          3. Here’s a FACT for you…You just got a comment from *dreeves* he said “Mellow” about your music, dreeves also said that same thing on 211 other artists pages. I guess he just thinks all music is “Mellow” and yet, on his profile page he has never rated any songs that he likes,well..that’s a bit odd. Why don’t you send an email to him and the other Vague Comment Fans and see how many of them get back to you.I can give you hundreds of facts, but the question is are you willing to listen or are you on the Jango payroll and part of this whole thing. How many of your fans from your FAN BASE, as you put it, are purchasing your songs?? I can guarantee you that all vague comment fans are not purchasing anything, because they’re NOT REAL!!!!!!!!

          4. Is there a way I can verify that the same artist gave the exact same comment on 211 artist pages? Link please? I admit, that would be very suspicious.

            No, I’m not on the payroll, but maybe I should be! :)

          5. Send dreeves an email and ask him. I’m sure he’ll get back to you..NOT!! I have to tell you ..I think you do work for Jango or you would be checking all this stuff out yourself, but all you keep on doing is asking for more proof and links and facts …PLEASE my friend lets be serious. Go on Jango and look at some other artist pages for yourself , you don’t have to be a genius, to figure it out. Although my IQ is 160…

  91. Stripedbass1234 – I’m continuing our conversation here, since our reply thread was getting too squashed to read.

    I actually did try to check it out. I found the profile and clicked through to the bands he/she likes, and couldn’t find any comments. That user has not shared an email address with me, and most messages inside Jango go unnoticed, so I have no way to make contact myself.

    How did you determine that dreeves commented “Mellow” on 212 artists profiles? How can I or anyone else check that for ourselves?

    p.s. I’ve been thinking about converting to 100% Facebook Comments, and you’ve cinched it. I hope our discussions here will be more honest and open when everyone knows who they’re talking to. I have no idea who you are or what your agenda is. Are you a musician? Do you have a site or profile I can check out?

    1. I actually have nothing personal against Jango. I think it’s great to expose people to music they would other wise never hear. My problem is, I don’t like the fact, that they are taking advantage of the artists who keep paying them more money every month thinking they are getting legitimate fans when they are not, at all. Like I said some are real, there is no doubt about that, but a lot are computer generated to keep you paying. Lets say you just take the 100 free plays and pursue fans on your own through the site and other places, then I think that’s GREAT! The problem is that many artists and bands think they have this huge Fan Base and that’s just not the truth. If you had a real fan base with 7000+ fans that means every time you release a new song on Jango you should receive a pretty good amount of sales, but you won’t, because at least 50% are padded through Jango. (vague comment fans). Brian I wish you a lot of luck with your music and again I’m not against the premise of Jango , I’m just against some of the practices. I don’t know who your PRO is(ASCAP,BMI,SEASAC etc.), but you can give them a call and see what they have to say about the site and independent artists..just a heads up. SoundExchange currently pays .0018 cents per play, you probably no that and to answer your question about if I’m a musician, the answer is, I was a very successful songwriter in the 80’s and early 90’s, along with my computer ambitions. I charted on Billboard 7 times. Goodluck!!

      1. Thanks! I totally understand where you’re coming from, but I’d really appreciate it if you’d explain how you determined that dreeves commented “Mellow” on 212 artists profiles, and how we can check it out for ourselves. Right now all we have to go on is your word, and the fact that you’ve chosen to remain anonymous doesn’t bolster your case.

        1. Brian…I can assure you that a 65yr. old man has better things things to do in his twilight yrs. then to make up a bunch of stuff for no good reason. I can’t give out info. on how to get into systems to see whats really going on…that’s a gift. Again..look for yourself. You won’t hear from me anymore.

          striper01001010001110011101010011101101

          1. I’ve done my best to keep an open mind, going so far as to research your claims myself, but at this point I feel comfortable dismissing this as a wild conspiracy theory.

            Feel free to comment further using Facebook Comments. As promised, I’m closing Disqus comments, effective now.

  92. still not too sure about jango after reading the information here. It is a pity they do the pay monthly option and not a one off.

  93. anyone know if you sign up for jango lets say for the $30 for a 1000 airplays and if after that month you cancel that payment is your account closed or do you just goto free/'organic' plays?

  94. You can cancel immediately after ordering plays, and your account will continue generating free organic plays. Listeners won't see the popup though, so you won't collect new email addresses. I've done that for weeks at a time when money was tight. Originally you had to buy each batch of plays individually, but they started offering the subscription as a convenience.

  95. ah right, actually I might wait until you write the new overview, will give me time to save some money and also create a couple of new tracks as well.

  96. Signed up for Jango a few days ago, before I read this post. Already getting some fans and organic plays! I was a little skeptical at first, so I made a small investment (30 Bucks) but I'm pretty sure I'm going to continue this process after reading your post.

  97. I don't know guys… Isn't this payola? Aren't we supposed to get paid for airplay? Am I missing something? Myspace and facebook and lots of internet radio stations are free and pay me! I'm going to pass for now…

  98. I prefer doing it the old fashioned way. I work getting my CDs out to stations and am then proud of my results seeing it get on Roots Music Report and other charts because folks request them.

  99. I've done a few old school campaigns, including a $4000 commercial radio campaign in Italy and France, and with my music at least, Jango is far more cost-effective. Not to say you want to turn your back on DJs and stations that have played you in the past! You might consider splitting the difference – sending to fewer terrestrial stations, and using the money you save on an internet radio campaign.

  100. I used Jango about 6 months until dec 2010 – posting 70 songs in which my credits were purchased in the 10's of thousands. My return in money was small, but it is not always about.99 cent against the airplay, the promotion and exposures to what are real fans or listeners that cost the Majors Millions for one CD's promotion worldwide and still may not be a big seller. To any music entity that allows an unknown artist or label to spread his/her music around the world doesn't have to give me a dime back – I should be paying them.

  101. That's a great attitude, and a huge buy-in! Any chance you could share your full stats? I've spent a few thousand over the years, but you've got me beat! I wonder if you would've gotten better results by narrowing it down to the 2-3 songs that got the best initial results.

  102. Brian I cannot recall the stats per se, but the fan base was very good and email addresses too. There was a lot of communicatiion. All in all you are right about 2-3 songs however the catalog itself is nearly 300 songs which I am obligated by mechanical license to somehow place them all for sales and radio play by any means as a promotion factor. The returns from jango eventually was not worth it at the same time jango is saying they have 7-8 million listeners. The stats did not jive with the actual playing of the songs. So I moved on. Thanks. The player below plays the same songs that were on Jango.

  103. oh what a problem here – I allowed anwar washington to use my computer last night and somehow he altered my facebook account and now his name pops up on my page instead of mine. All messages seen are written by me. Sorry Brian. This is not Anwar

  104. Thanks for sharing your results! Hopefully some of those new fans stuck with you via your mailing list.

    By the way, your comments are going both to your page and my blog. As for the Anwar mixup, I think you just need to log out and log back in as yourself.

  105. March 16, 2012: One person in Australia, or France, or South America that listens to a song that I created and sang here in Chicago, starts a ripple effect that can spread by word of mouth to other family and friends around the world. it's called ( the domino effect ) or ( getting your foot in the door, and the body will usually follow ).
    THE VEGA- http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/thevega.

  106. March 19, 2012: Hey Brian, Glad you enjoyed my above comment and hope it inspires others to follow wherever their dreams take them and doing what they love; everything else,… is gravy. Steve of THE VEGA

  107. I can't find anywhere on the Jango Airplay site that verifies a song going into general rotation after it gets 50 likes. Is there someplace official you know of that states it?

  108. Hello Brian, I have been busy, but recently saw you on my other facebook page: THE VEGA-Steve Vega, and you are welcome to post on either or both of my pages . hope to hear from you. Steve. March 27, 2012

  109. I'm try'n to find out who is & is not legit in this biz on online airplay…We ARE legitimate & u can easily verify..in many ways…1 could start with ridlerbrothers.com & ALOT OF VERY POZ REVIEWS, BUY LEGIT BIG LEAGUE MUZ CRITCS ETCZ, UP THE YING YANG I'm old school biz savvy, but not so much interenet…WOULD SOMEONE CALL ME, IF THEY CAN & WANT TO HELP..BE IN A MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL BIZ RELATION SHIP…R-A list catalogue is huge by anyones standards…Magna & Warner wouldn't court us if I was BSing & u can always look at ridlerbrothers.com, r facebook & much more…(509) 993 0894 west coast time Jeff Ridler.

  110. I can vouch for Jango, Earbits, and Last.fm. I was going to try Grooveshark, but technical difficulties got in the way, and their legal troubles make for a bad long term investment. Those are the only ones I know of!

  111. Great articles that you have written on Jango. Can you give any further color on what has worked most effectively for emailing fans that have not given their email address? Jango still has the bulletin board feature as well as the ability to mass email everyone.

  112. I use the mass email feature, but I'm lucky to get one or two responses. The problem is, Jango listeners are passive for the most part, and don't realize they've got messaging built into their control panels. Or that they have control panels. ;)

  113. I have 5x that, and rarely get sales that I can trace, but I've heard from people on Facebook and Twitter that they found me on Jango. Remember "fans" just means that given the option of thumbs up or down, they chose up. It's a grunt of acknowledgement at best.

  114. If you have 12K fans and haven't had any sales, what does that tell you? It's a scam. Sorry you spent all the money for nothing in return.

  115. That's not the case at all Karen. I've had sales, Facebook page likes and friend adds, Twitter followers, 1061 subscribers to my mailing list, comments, emails, etc. It's just hard to know how many of those sales are attributable to Jango.

    Like I said before, a "like" on Jango doesn't mean much – just people choosing to give you a thumbs up instead of a thumbs down. That's nice, but that doesn't mean they are going to look you up on iTunes and buy your album.

  116. I tried Jango. At first I thought it was great as I constantly got a high pop score, got free organic plays and got 600 likes, 400 fans from 9000 plays. I have however not had one conversion to a sale, a fb like or even a website visit from Jango. I have sent out many bulletins and messages within Jango and heard NOTHING from fans. I even sent a message asking if the fans were real, again got nothing. I am beginning to wonder if these Jango "fans" are indeed just computer generated?

  117. I'm convinced they are real people that have no idea they can receive messages inside of Jango. The way to test it is to assign all the email addresses shared with you to a separate group of your mailing list, and send out an email asking them for a personal reply on some important question. Even then you can't expect better than a 20% open rate, which I'm lucky to get on my best mailings.

  118. Brian Hazard I've message jango to have a better messaging system. I have a listener account and tested how my fans are receiving the messages. Turns out if you are only concerned about listening and not your profile, you have to dig in before seeing that a message was sent to you.

  119. Brian Hazard how does that royalty thing work? I've only used jango for about a couple of months now and receive favorable results so far. The free plays i get from the pop score is enough for me to have a good pop score for new free plays (slow but free hehehe)

  120. Sounds about right. Thanks for looking into it! I figure if a listener shares their email address with you, they want to hear from you again, so I add them to my mailing list. I rarely bother to send out messages through Jango itself.

  121. Free is nice! As for royalties, I believe they are only on organic plays. You'll have to register with SoundExchange to collect, which is free, so might as well!

  122. If you want to know if jango listeners…well they are! cause I have added them to my facebook acct..and have personally spoken to them and thank them for being a fan of my music..thank you all an thanks to jango I have gained more fans or ears to my music…Thanks jango..

  123. Good to hear you've had a positive experience! I hear from Jango users off and on, but I haven't gotten scientific about it. I've added over 1200 to my mailing list at this point, so they constitute a decent percentage of my subscriber base.

  124. Interesting, but I don't buy it. I still hear from people every couple weeks that discovered me on Jango. Can you imagine the outrage from users of CD Baby, Sonicbids, Tunecore etc, who recommend the service, if it turned out that the entire operation was a fraud? My contact at Jango when I wrote my articles used the service to promote his own roster of bands, on his small indie label.

  125. well jango indirectly promotes cdbaby, etc. so why would cdbaby complain about that? I have contacted my 'fans' (150 or so at this point) and gotten no responses… I sent out mass msgs to them directing them to by page and have had no hits/no digitial downloads, etc… Also had the same experience as some of the other posters here regarding the 'comment's' made supposedly by listeners – they were all one-word 'nice' or 'mellow' etc… which is a bizarre… if a person is going to bother commenting on your music they would say 'i really liked such and such song' or 'it reminded me of some artist' etc…. My guess is that it is largely bot driven with some real people mixed in… The number of people who get a multitude of 'like's or fans and yet have no sales to show for it (myself included) is certainly enough in itself to question the validity of the contacts…. I wanted to be a believer in it – but I am no longer…

  126. Well, as I explain in all of my Jango articles (think I'm up to 4), the messaging is useless. Fans don't know they have an inbox, and they rarely see your messages. Beyond that 150 "fans" is barely dipping your toe in the water. 2% of those (i.e. 3) may be genuine fans in the sense you or I would use the term. To put it in perspective, I've got 14,000.

    As for comments, they are prompted to leave one, and probably wouldn't otherwise bother. So they write "good" or "love it" or "okay" to fill in the blank. Still, I get genuine comments too, like recently: "excellent tune. Reminds me of postal service a little. I'm wondering what synths were used?" You can read them yourself at http://www.jango.com/music/Color+Theory?l=0

    Bottom line, Jango listeners are real people. They write me on Facebook and Twitter, sometimes email, and occasionally buy my music.

    It's been four years since I wrote this first article, and I've been fending off conspiracy theorists since day one. If they'd taken my advice and improved the messaging tools, they wouldn't have such widespread skepticism, so I do appreciate and empathize with your suspicions and frustration.

  127. I've been on it for a couple of month's now and I think its awesome for aspiring artists.. the more fans you get the more encouraged you become…Thanks to Jango and the fans I have acquired….

  128. Glad to hear it! My plays ran out a few weeks ago, and I haven't started up again. Seems like I wasn't getting the same number of email signups that I used to. Honestly, I don't see how they can compete against the likes of Spotify, much less Apple's iRadio (or whatever it's going to be called) that is rumored to be announced in the next couple days.

  129. I've been following this post since it was created…and years later…you were right Brian… I've had a very positive experience here. Also want to thank you for all your reviews…your word is golden in my book. Much success to you!

  130. I use Jango to judge song acceptance. Unfortunately, organic plays are no longer reported in the stats. Jango told me they were going to put them back but never did. These are VERY important numbers. I still use Jango nowadays to validate new songs but it seems listenership is down so it is hard to compare with older stats. And yes they seem to be real listeners. I have gotten genuine comments before.

  131. But,the listeners and fans are real people or not?…There is many complains about it from artists that use the service from radio airplay,they say is a fraud.

  132. Hello, I am liking the fact it is possible to earn something from Radio Airplay then, I think the best way to look at it, is if you keep optimistic about it, and know as what Brain Hazard states, you will get an earning back from your music, though I have to agree, you have to have a very good song in order for people to buy it, the one thing I will explain to everyone on here, is most probably a lot of the listeners on Jango, are at least 15 or younger, a fraction maybe older, but in some cases, it can also be linked to your targeting if that’s the reason why you are not making any money back from your songs,

    For example, if a Nicki Minaj fan which in other terms would be not so aware of what good music sounds like, and have been listening to an Artist like Nicki Minaj for years, don’t you think that a kid that is listening to your good song may think yes, have to download it or I think I will stream it in high quality? due to the point that your targeting the wrong audiences out there with your music? kids that listen to Nicki Minaj have a mind as sponges, it can soak a really good song, and yes then have an affect, on your sales, I have used Jango in the past and believe it or not most of the audiences that have liked my music, have been younger ones, and that they only streamed my stuff about 75 times a month on Deezer, good pay? that would be up to you, but really to be honest with this, you need to get into the minds of the audience a little more

    In actual fact my sister says she will only listen to or get her music for free on youtube or another site, either way your music is being bought, but just on a different form, streams seem to be quite high on deezer for me and thats on a few songs on stats on One rpm, 75 times a month is good, considering most of the fans listening to my stuff I can only imagine are coming from Jango, as I don’t promote too much on Twitter, and haven’t had much time, but I am at the moment thinking this may take awhile to actually see any funds reaching your account, the other thing I will mention is save some money, pay for a fair priced music video, put into youtube, and I believe with Tunecore doing youtube partnership as well as One rpm, get your stuff seen and heard from Radio Airplay, the more stunning your video looks like, the more times it will be streamed, sadly people, this is what the digital age has offered to us Artists

    The only way anyone would see any profit from music sales, is sadly through streaming nowadays, try Amazon Mp3 but then again, how many people in your audience know of the poor quality the mp3’s sound on Amazon, thus decreasing your chances to get anything sold, if anything I would say keep promoting in places like Radio Airplay, you may just see a passage that opens up for you in prosperity, only then can you judge for yourself if you are making anything back

    Want to know another thing? get your self known by loads of fans first, don’t offer them albums or eps, I have stuck to singles, and believe me the luck on this is sure to have you falling off your seat, helpful advice, don’t do an album or ep, unless your fans demand it or ask about it, the secret to success is be a mystery on your sound, don’t give a lot away for free either, offer some quality which is hard to get the first time for a fan, and then when you are successful and its on query from your fan base, who ask questions on it, will you be able to do more and excel in album marketing, but the other key to success, is knowing that all songs must be good in order for an album to sell

  133. Hi Brian, I can give a little evidence on the age, because on Jango, I checked most of my fans profiles, and it had come up with Sandra age 15 and others the same, after becoming a fan that is, I am not sure if Radio Airplay still shows the ages, but I was made aware of this that users of 15 and under I would say as young as 12, signing up to listen to Beyonce and other songs that they were told by their school friends was a good service for new music, from big artists mainly, this was on my old profile, I now am targeting older audiences as well because mainly they will have the money for something that sounds good, but the youth market yes you are getting your money back in no time, try the age targeting if jango supports this feature, also most of the fans from what I gather have facebook, just take a look at their profiles on fb, some state 15

    This is why I calculate that most of the songs aren’t making a lot back, mainly because people are not targeting the youth age group, I had a hit with my drum and bass atmospheric track theme Super Spiritual, and half of the fans were quite young, teenagers to be exact, and some adults, but I find that if you target the younger audiences, if this is possible on radio airplay, you could if paying for say 1000 air play credits, be able to receive a hell of a lot of new fans and income, my sister in the main uses facebook to share new music, and it is wide spread with younger audiences, the youth will share your music no doubt on their social networks, this is why you have been found by your new fans, whilst you were sleeping

    it is hard to say how much I have made back, but I know a percentage of my streams on Deezer just keep piling up, 75 streams a month one song, that is a lot to tbh, and I have so far been waiting to receive payment in my paypal from 7 days time, its not bad, but really, people should be in knowledge that in todays market its mainly aimed at a younger audience any way, and some teenagers rush out and buy music in stores, or purchase for an itunes card, with £50 credit on it

    I do have one thing though to share with you, most fans as you say Brian, are into youtube and get their music from youtube, play it back on their computers whilst tidying their room, its all good in some aspect for them, but I have been investing in fastrax the media company, music on video does not make much back, as people only want the song and not the video, but if you do a very good video, and you can check up the specs for submitting a new video for MTV or channel aka from fastrax, you will make a great load of earnings back, from what you put out there, what I mean is that Jango does this as well, promotes you, but for £300 or so you could be aired to 19.million viewers around the world on tv, if your video and song is good, depending on what music you make, can earn you a lot back, more than what Jango can offer, which is some sales, once again the youth audience are in tune with MTV, Kiss, The Box TV,

    and the success you could make in no time, tons of facebook likes, and say half of the people rushing out to buy your music in stores, if you are signed up to CD Baby for example, also have you not heard the vinyl market is growing again? this is one thing you are missing out on, but I have to say if people want to make something back from music, I would strongly advice not giving away a whole album for free, time and effort is what you had spent on it, you should make it known that your stuff is rare, and cannot be given away for free, I will share with my new stats over the months, for music being streamed sold all this, people will expect most of your music to be for free, but let them reach out to what is quality and make them think you know I need this song, I can’t find it anywhere else for free, I think I will purchase it, it was the same with me, I bought a song from a producer called Equinox, his song in high quality wav was what I looking for, but its rare, once again, be the mystery, look up subtle audio label, they attract a lot of buyers for Atmospheric Jungle, all in which they purchase for a rare high quality CD or Vinyl from their sown store on their label website, once again they are rare? have you tried this at all Brian, their is success in music, and the key to it, is not making your music for free tbh

  134. No doubt, Jango I strongly recommend people keep trying the credits on their system, this is to promote you and like I say if you’re music is not free, you are bound to receive an income in no time, sometimes its pure guess work, but optimistic is what I am and I am happy with Jango and the real key to success in the industry

    1. Thanks again for sharing your perspectives! Lots of good ideas in there.

      Radio Airplay users age: Anecdotally, a lot of your fans are young. I get that, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to the site as a whole. If you were a country or classical artist, you might see a different trend.

      Streaming income: 75 streams is almost certainly less than $0.50. Not to diminish the accomplishment though! It’s nice that people are playing your stuff, when such a large percentage of subscription services’ music goes unplayed.

      CD/Vinyl: I’ve never tried vinyl, but I do have 7 CDs for sale at http://music.colortheory.com, all classified as limited edition (because I’ll never press more!). I’m lucky to sell a handful a month. The vast majority of my sales are digital.

  135. That’s amazing Brian, I have never sold one CD yet, my first album is awaiting release soon into the hands of my listeners, yes you are correct, the age of listeners may be different due to which genre of music a person may do,

    May I ask how long did it take for you to accomplish the vast majority of digital sales? have you made a living out of it enough to eat at least and pay bills? if I may ask this, as I am about to share with you yet in the few months my stats on Radio Airplay and Deezer, on my old Air Play account I attached my Deezer account to ther info and links section, I guess this is why I am sure where most of my new listeners are coming from,

    Perhaps you could do the same, and I am sure your stats and streaming sales won’t go unplayed in total earning you that little extra amount in your paypal, things could be successful at that point for you as an Artist

    Because I have lack of funds to even run the route for a great number of fans and total earnings on Radio Airplay, I am still having to wait a while, to actually see the results for myself,

    I am actually amazed though, that a vast amount of your have been digital, my friend in music made £1000 in CD sales on the street, music wasn’t too bad, but still, how do you sell your CD’s? do you go through CD Baby service provider? I’ve been eager to know because I have a nice selection of 16 songs on one album releasing later on CD

    Yes the vinyl market is growing, I have never had a chance to hear your stuff, but I’m pretty sure if you did vinyl, that your sales will be good in amount also, are you in your own label like I am? its great to talk with a person such as yourself, Brian, thank you for taking to read my short info on stats

Share Your Thoughts